Up Coming Classes and Events at Little Shop of Artists

Good Morning,

Happy Friday to one and all.

Today we will be briefly discussing the classes taught by Alixandra Browning of The Alchemists Vessel and Blackbird Metalworks.

Alixandra is the Independent Contracted Jewelry Instructor for Boise's local Jo-Ann Fabric and Craft Store located at 1085 Milwaukee, Boise.

September's and October's Classes include

"Crystal Crochet Water Bracelet" This is made with wire and beads
"Satin Crystal Weave Bracelet"  This is made with satin cording and as many colors as you like, samples use black and white cording (available to see in store).

How about these cute Medallion Earrings, just in time for the Holidays.  Change up the colors and they can be Stars, Snowflakes, Webs, just about anything you can imagine.  Just in time for Halloween these are made in fun Fall colors!

Come on in and learn how and you, too, can hand-make your Christmas presents this year!

We also offer classes at Little Shop of Artists.

These are cute, simple fun and only cost about $10.00 to make (depending on where you purchase your supplies).

Memory Wire Bracelets with Glass Bi-cone beads, these can be designed with any single color or as many colors as you like, simple to make, shiny to wear!

We also teach a variety of intermediate and advanced jewelry techniques, including Illusion jewelry and Chainmaille classes.

We also teach a variety of craft classes from knitting and crocheting to fun ways to alter or jazz up your wardrobe.

Please stop by the shop and have a look.  Sign up for class, or bring us your broken or tired  jewelry in need or repair or an update and let us help you create a special something all your own and fall in love with your jewelry again.

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Store Location:

Little Shop of Artits
6713 Fairview Ave., Suite B
Boise, ID 83704
(Behind A-1 Video Game Exchange, in the lot)

Simple DIY Jewelry You'll Really Wear - One

Monday is here, alas.

This morning's post is first in a series of easy do-it-yourself jewelry projects that you can do in as little or as much time as you like and the neat thing is, some are great for kids with parental super vision.

If you can close a Safety Pin you can make this simple and pretty bracelet, and no one has to know they are safety pins.

The type of Safety pin works best.  The Cord will be threaded through the holes at the top and bottom of the pin.

I did not take photos, and this is a straight forward project.

Materials

1 pkg. 1mm Elastic Beading Cord
Ample Safety Pins (wrist circumferences vary we suggest 50 or more)
Seed Beads 6.0 or larger in the color(s) of choice. Bead hole needs to fit over pin prong.
Super Glue
*6mm "Spacer" Beads (less pins will be required of beads are used)

Cut 2 pieces of the Elastic Beading Cord,  12" in length.
Tie a knot about 2" down from one end of both cords (do not tie them together).

Open a Safety pin and add beads along the prong, leave enough space to close the pin again.  Repeat with the remainder of the pins.  Be creative, play with colors, allow your imagination to design the piece for you.

Super glue the Safety Pins shut.  This way they will not open and scratch you when wearing the bracelet.

Thread a *Spacer bead, these can be glass, metal, anything you like, on one piece of cord and slide it down to the knot. 

Thread the cord through the top "hole" in the safety pin, add a spacer bead.  Sliding the Pin and Bead down the cord.

Continue adding Pins and Spacer Beads until the Pins fit around you wrist and the ends meet.

Add a final spacer bead to the cord and tie a knot keeping it in place.

With the second piece of cord, thread on one spacer bead, and thread the cord through the bottom holes of the Pins, adding spacer beads between each pin.  Work until you reach the last pin in the row.

Place a final Spacer bead on the cord.  Tie the matching ends of the cords together, closing the bracelet.  Not too tight, you want to be able to slip the bracelet on and off easily and not cut off your circulation while wearing it.

As well, you can say, "I made this."

Give it try, it takes about an hour.

Thank you for stopping in and having a read.

The Alchemists Vessel would like to wish a pleasant day.

Studio News Jewlery Classes New for the Holidays

Trick or Treat!

I do love the middle of the week, and what more can I say, other than of course I have a treat for you!

I spent yesterday at the work bench, assembling samples for the brand new Jewelry Class projects starting in November and available through December at your local Jo-Ann Fabric and Craft Store.

Jo-Ann Fabric and Craft Store
1085 Milwaukee
Boise, ID 
208-323-5373 
Instructor: Alixandra Browning of The Alchemists Vessel

Jewelry Making Basics or Jewelry 101 is always offered and includes an overview of supplies, tools and basic jewelry making terms and techniques.  Students take home a project they choose to make during class.  $35.00 for a 2-1/2 hour session.  Includes a field trip through the aisles.

This months projects are pretty and versatile! Simple, fun, fabulous, and  just in time for the Holidays!  Sign up and make presents for your Mom, sister, daughter, Grandmother, or all your girl-friends, in their favorite colors!  Easy and quick these projects have endless possibilities for color combinations!

Jewelry 102

Solar Chic is the first project.  $30.00 for a 2 hour session.  The Class includes both the Earrings and Bracelet.  Project materials are purchased in advance by the student, and tools are provided in the classroom.  In keeping with the Class Instructions and using the suggested materials, and still managing to keep the project unique and different; the goal of the class is to teach the techniques and let the student use their design idea to complete the piece.

Material lists and Class Schedules are provided at time of sign up.  

Suggested materials
Ear Wires
Memory Wire
6mm and 4mm *Bi-cone Beads in your favorite color.
*Project instructions call for Swarovski Crystals in Green (Mix)
Sturdy wire cutters (Memory Wire fights back!)
Round Nose pliers

Solar Chic Earrings

Memory wire and two sizes of Bi-cone shaped glass beads make up this cute and illusion-like pair of earrings.

Solar Chic Matching Bracelet

Memory wire and the same Bi-cone shaped glass beads with an added color or two create this cute, super simple, and very shiny bracelet.

Jewelry 201

I don't design the projects I just make the samples and teach the class, like they tell me.

Bow Tie Necklace - $30.00 for a 2 hour session.

This pretty project has a surprise, not constructed as you think it might be, the double strand is an eye-fetchingly sparkly and charming bit of decoration.  Great for teens, the office, or to match that Holiday outfit!  The Bow Tie may be attached or removed for two different looks.

Suggested Materials:
Silver Chain
4mm *Bi-Cone Beads
*Project instructions call for Swarovski Crystals in Siam
6mm Jump Rings
Head Pins
Lobster Claw Clasp (or choice)
Beading Wire (7 Stand)
Round Nose pliers
Wire Cutters

Silver (white metal) chain is the basis for this piece.  Shown here without the beaded Bow Tie Accent.

Option:

Shown here with the addition of the Bow Tie. 

Detail

Bow Tie accent.  Bow is created with 4mm beads.

This pieces can be made in any color combination or solid color of choice.

Thank you for stopping in and having a look.

The Alchemists Vessel would like to wish you a very Spooky Halloween!

Cuttlebone Casting Part III - Casting The Piece

Hello,

Please note, due to technical difficulties some of the photos for this tutorial are not shown (photo error), this post will be updated once the photo upload decides to cooperate.  We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and are working to rectify the situation.

This is the final stage in casting a piece of jewelry with a cuttlebone mold.  If you have not been following along or have just discovered this series, please refer to the previous posts for an overview.

Cuttlebone Casting - Part I Materials and Modeling

Cuttlebone Casting - Part II Model and Mold Preparation

PART III Casting the project.

TOOLS:

Tin Alloy Soldering Wire (4 tubes, 20 feet)

Stainless Steel Spoon

Mini-Torch

Prepared Cuttlebone Mold

Vice Grip or Prop

Safety Gear

Goggles / Glasses

Gloves, leather shoe strings (something to wrap the spoon handle) 

NOTE:  The sample casting shown used 2 to 2-1/2 tubes of Tin Alloy Solder, your project may require more or less depending on size of the model and depth of the impression.

SAFETY FIRST!  This lesson consists of playing with fire, and I mean literally.  Temperatures reach 400 degrees and possibly higher!  Be aware of your surroundings and your work area!  Remove any and all distractions and make sure you have an uninterrupted block of time in which to work.  Although this portion of the process is fairly quick, you must pay attention to what you are doing!  Turn off your cell-phone, send the kids outside to play, give the hubby a “Honey-Do” list and feed the dog; you must be and remain focused!

Last time we made a wax model and a mold from simple and easy to obtain materials.  Today we are going to complete the process and show the steps for actually casting the piece.  The step-by-step process for creating a mold may be read in CuttleboneCasting Part II – Model and Mold Preparation.

The cuttlebone mold is now ready for molten metal.  Cuttlebones are naturally heat resistant.  This means that they can withstand high heat without distorting in shape, and make wonderful molds for just that reason.  They are also a completely natural tool with no added chemicals and won’t harm the environment.  Eco-friendly jewelry creation, that’s a plus!

PRE-CASTING PREPARATIONS:

Prepare your work area.  Make sure it is free of anything flammable and fluttery that might catch fire or drift into the molten metal.  Place your mold in the Vice Grip or other object you have chosen to keep it steady and upright.  Get your spoon (or whatever you’re going to use to melt the metal in), torch, and tin alloy lined up, ready to go, and easily accessed! 

**TIP:  Trim the tin alloy coils into smaller pieces; this will make melting and adding it to the already melted material much easier.

NOTE:  Unlike other casting processes that use high-speed centrifuges or kiln (oven) burn out cycles (Lost Wax Casting) to distribute the material to the mold, all that is working here is gravity!  Pouring the molten metal into the mold is like filling a glass with sand, the material will be layered as you pour it into the mold.

Here I have the cuttlebone mold in a prop to keep it upright and steady as material is poured.  Closed with Rubber bands and waiting for metal to be melted and poured.

MELT THE METAL / FILL THE MOLD:

*The Spoon will reach temperatures of up to 400 degrees (the melting point of the tin alloy is 374-degrees), USE PROTECTIVE MEASURES!  Leather gloves or wrap the end with leather shoestrings to keep the heat away form your hands and fingers.

Begin by adding a small amount of the Tin Alloy to the spoon.  Cut bits off the coil first to make this easier.  Let it sit in the bowl of the spoon.  Do not try to melt the whole coil all at once.   Using a mini-torch, hold the spoon just above the flame and melt the metal in the spoon, continue to add bits of metal until the spoon is full.

 

The flame has not been turned on for these pictures, that would be hazardous to my heath and the I'd burn the house down.  These are to show the spoon's position it should be held up and away from the nozzle of your torch and the flame allowed to heat the bowl of the spoon from underneath.

Because the soldering material is a tin / rosin core alloy, you will see the rosin left behind in the spoon.  That is the brown discoloration you see.  Rosin comes from trees and is a brittle solid form of resin, it is used as a flux in some soldering materials to help the metal melt and flow at an even rate.  This discoloration will not appear on your piece, this is left behind after the melting process.

NOTE:  The molten metal will pool in the bowl of the spoon.  Adding pieces of material closer to the pool will help it to melt and incorporate into the ever growing puddle of metal.  It will slide around in the spoon hold the spoon steady while melting is in process. 

(Photo error)

Continue to add pieces of the Tin Alloy until the spoon is full.

Carefully pour the contents of the spoon into the Sprue Hole and down the Sprue Channel.

Repeat the melting and pouring process until your mold is full, you will have to look through the Sprue Hole and do a little guessing here to be sure that the material has filled the mold (impression) completely.  You DO NOT want to fill the Vent Gates or Sprue Channel, just enough metal to fill the mold of the Cross.

Instant Gratification…. Well almost.  After the mold is full, wait a full ten to fifteen minutes for the metal to solidify and harden.  The mold will also be cooling down during this time, making it a little easier to handle.

Here you can see the burn mark on the top of mold, where the spoon touched the surface of the cuttlebone.  Here the cuttlebone sits in its prop cooling down while the metal is solidifying.

Once time is up, carefully remove the binding from the outside of the mold, unwind the wire, slip off the rubber bands (whatever was used) gently, keeping the mold closed as you do this.  If you used Duct Tape (and I told you not to) you will have to cut it away with a razor-blade where the two halves of the mold meet and split the mold open like a book.

(Photo error)

Well looky there!  You have a metal pendant!  TAH-DAH!

(Photo error)

The tin alloy is soft enough that you can drill a hole in the top of the cross using a drill bit and your hand for a bail to be glued (soldered) into place.

FINAL FINISHING:

To complete my pendant, I will seat the simulated Garnet into the center hole of the Cross.  Using a brass rod that I have ground to a 45-deegree angle at one end, I will finish the pilot hole for the gem and seat it in to place.  Using a craft knife or razor blade, I will then create PRONGS by scraping some of the metal from the Cross up and over the gemstone in four evenly spaced places around the stone's setting.

Although this will leave dents in the exterior of the Cross surface, it will help secure the stone into place.

After the gemstone setting is complete I will use a Polishing Cloth (these have chemicals embedded in the material) and gently rub the surface of the piece, polishing it and giving a little shine.

It is now ready to be displayed or worn on chain or lanyard.

Thank you so much for stopping by and having a look, and if you have followed the whole series, thank you for sticking with us.  We hope you have enjoyed this brief look in to one of the many casting processes available and used for jewelry-making.

The Alchemists Vessel would  like to wish you a pleasant day.

**Want something like this, but don't want to do it yourself?  Custom work is available.  All custom molding projects begin at $50.00 this includes Design materials and Mock Up of your custom piece before casting in the material of your choice!  Precious Metals are available for this process. 

Please feel free to return for the updated post, once I get the photos to cooperate! 

Cuttlebone Casting Part II - Model and Mold Preparation

Good Morning,

Wednesday's are devoted to what's happening in the studio here at The Alchemists Vessel, and this morning is Part II of the three part series, Cuttlebone Casting.

Monday we discussed materials and the very basics of beginning to model and mold the pendant.  Today we are going to continue the project with making the model and creating the mold itself.

If you would like to follow along, I recommend a quick review of Monday's post, Cuttlebone Casting Part I- Materials and Model Making.

TOOLS:
Pencil

Paper

Pin or Sharp Pointy Object

Modeling (Jeweler's) Wax
Flat File

Jeweler's Saw

Lighter Fluid

Soft Cloth

Brass Rods

Unsharpened Pencil

Prepared Cuttlebone halves

Last time the design of the piece was decided upon, sketched and cut out.  The sample project shown throughout the instruction will be  simple Cross shape.

This is about 1-1/2" tall x 1-1/4" wide.  Sketched in pencil (then traced with ink for a clearer photo), cut out of the paper, this will be the Paper Template from which to trace or "scribe" the design on to the wax block.

PREPARE THE MODEL

Cut out and place your Paper Template on top of the modeling wax and with a pin or other sharp object draw or “scribe” your design into the wax.  Trace the template.  Below is a T-pin, which I use to scribe the design in to the wax.

Note: You can see that the template is a little too long for the wax, you may adjust your design to fit with in the wax area before your trace the design.

Next with a Jeweler’s Saw and a Spiral saw blade (these cut modeling wax best, and straight blades work just fine, too) cut out your model.

Here is the beginning of the wax model.  Using a straight saw blade the block has been cut along the scribed lines in the wax.  Once completely cut out the model will be ready for final preparations.

Once your model is cut out, use a wax file to smooth and true the edges up, keeping them straight and even.  They make specific files for wax, if one is not available a flat jewelers / craft file will work as well.

Using a tiny bit of lighter fluid and a soft cloth, smooth out the surface, corners, and sides of the model.  This will remove any imperfections, nicks and scratches, and smooth the surface for a better impression.  Remember every imperfection will transfer to the finished product.  Be careful, over working the wax will distort or destroy any detail you may have carved into the model.

I have drilled tiny pilot holes in my design, the center hole will house the gemstone, and the others are to keep the design consistent.

NOTE:  I failed to take a picture prior to completing the next steps.  What you see here, is the final model, after it has been pressed into the cuttlebone halves.  The white material is dust from the bone.   Also, I dropped it, as I mentioned the wax is very brittle and I managed to break the arm of the Cross on one side.  However this happened after creating the mold impression!

Whew!  Almost there!

MAKE THAT MOLD

Now the fun starts!  Using one side of your cuttlebone, press your model into the flat surface of the bone.  The bone is soft, use gentle even pressure.  Next place the other half of the cuttlebone on top of the wax model and other half of the bone-mold and press the two sides together.  GENTLY!  If you press too hard the cuttlebone will break and another one will have to be prepared before continuing.  The wax model is now embedded in the cuttlebone.  It does take some pressure, and you can hear the model sinking into the surface of the cuttlebone.  The halves do need to touch, but press the wax into them enough for a well-defined impression.

With a pencil, mark several places on the outside of the bone so you can align the halves later.  This is important, the sides of the mold must match up for the inside to cast properly.

Remove the model.  The impression will be left behind.  This model may be used again to make another mold.

 

Here you can see the impression the wax model has made in the bone, along with the natural striated patterns of the bone itself, they are distorted by the the impression of the cross.  (The other side of the cuttlebone looks just like this).

If desired, very, very carefully sand the impression for better definition.  Do not overwork the area or you can distort the impression.

ADD SPRUE CHANNELS AND VENT GATES

Choosing one side of the mold, lay it flat and using the end of a pencil (not sharpened) create a SPRUE CHANNEL by gently pressing the pencil into the bone, just above and at the edge of the impression.  What’s a sprue channel?  It is a channel that allows the material you’re pouring to enter the mold for casting.  Make sure that this just touches the edge or of your model impression, but not so much to distort your design.  (Simon didn’t say to remove the pencil).

Next using brass rods or something with a smaller diameter than the pencil create VENT GATES.  What’s a vent gate?  It is a channel that will allow air to escape the mold during the casting process.  Just like you did with the pencil, using two (2) Brass rods (or tool) lay them just at the end and edge of the arms of the Cross.  These should also just touch the edge of the impression.  With the pencil and then the rods in place, place the second half of your mold over the pencil and rods and press down, keeping in mind to align the pencil marks on the outside of the cuttlebone.  The channels must be created in both sides of the mold.  Take the halves apart, remove the pencil and rods.

Are you still with me?  Still want to make a piece of jewelry?   Alrighty then!  Here we go!

Now match up the halves with the lines you made on the outside.  Find the Sprue Channel. Very carefully mark the top of the mold (both sides), on either side of the Sprue Channel.  This is where you will cut the SPRUE HOLE.  What’s a sprue hole?  It is a larger opening in the mold, which allows you to pour material into the Sprue Channel and into the mold.  This makes it easier to pour the material from whatever you have melted your material in, into the mold itself.  If you try to aim for the Sprue Channel you will wind up with material on the outside of the mold and possibly severe burns.  Molten Metal is HOT HOT HOT!  This project only gets up to about 400 degrees, but that can still do some serious damage!  Be careful.

Here you can see the Vent Gates, Sprue Hole, Sprue Channel, and the pencil marks I made on the outside of the bone to align the pieces.

Now align the Mold again.  Using Mold Wire, Rubber bands, or other type of binding (I do not recommend Duct Tape or other adhesive strips or bindings), match up the halves and secure (close) the mold.

The photo above is the closed mold, with Rubber band binding.

You just made a mold.  COOL!

WHEW!

Set the mold aside, some place safe and dry.

The preparations are now done and the mold is ready to begin casting the piece.

Take a break, have a little sit down and enjoy some tea, coffee, a beverage, or snack of your choice!  You've earned it!

Next time.  Part III - Casting the piece. 


Thank you for stopping by and having a look.

The Alchemists Vessel would like to wish you a pleasant Wednesday.

Friday Local Links and Promotions

Friday is here, and the weekend is right around the corner!

Speaking of the weekend, this is a big deal up here, and it is fun.  The Western Idaho Fair is this month.  August 17 through the 26th, 2012.  Contests, Farm Exhibits, Rides and Funnel cake.

Jo-Ann Fabric and Crafts Stores has new Jewelry-Making classes, with Alixandra Browning of The Alchemists Vessel.  Come on down and have an enjoyable afternoon of fun and crafting.  Projects suitable for all ages, taught in a classroom at the store in a comfortable and relaxed atmosphere.  These are the projects for August.  Don't forget to ask abut special deals when signing up for class, many have up to a 50% discount on the listed price.

Green Chutes

I don't know anything about this other than they are up the street from my house.  The appear to be an Artists Co-Op that sells food.  I have never been there, and should probably go.  Off State Street in the Collister Shopping Center near the Bowling Alley. If any of you have been there, a review would be wonderful.

Thanks for stopping by and having a read.

The Alchemists Vessel would like to wish you a pleasant weekend.

5 Great Gift To Give Summer Idea I

Although Summer is not quite here, I thought it would be fun to look at gifts and things to do this summer.

Summer Classes and Camps.  These can be anything from a couple of hours learning how to create jewelry, knit or crochet, paint, draw, to an active Day Camp for kids that may include hiking, swimming, biking, a day at the playground, or the zoo.  Many of these camps not only welcome but encourage patents to join in the activity as well.

Jo-Ann Fabrics has several Summer Camps for kids from Sewing to other fun activities both educational and fun, that are geared especially for little one.  There are also adult classes available.  This Saturday, June 9th, from 1:00 to 3:00 p.m., Jo-Ann Fabrics is having an open house. Class sign up is 50% off, come on down and see what they have in-store for you or for your little one this Summer.  My class projects will be on display as well.

Jo-Ann Fabrics (Boise, Idaho)

1085 North Milwaukee Street

Boise, ID 83704

Get directions

Milwaukee Marketplace‎

(208) 323-5373

joann.com‎

I try to inject a little humor into things here is a fun and unique gift for the Accident Prone individual in your life, and someone is bound to wind up with a scraped knee. 

Fortune Bandages

From Toy Splash

This neat Lizard Pool Lounger.

This is neat for a day at the beach.  

From: Designed by Felisa

 

Sea-Water Octopus Compact Mirror

Description:  This compact mirror is beautiful!!! Fantasy blue sparkles fill the foundation of the front side of the compact. I adorned a lovely Octopus to the top center of the compact mirror. Compact has a combination of a smooth feeling along with perfect texture of the adorned metal Octopus. Perfect match for your accesories!!!!

I used a super sealant with to ensure stability of my design on this compact mirror.   100% designed by Felisa

 

 

From: The Alchemists Vessel

Elegant Chainmaille Collar in Silver Plate and Black Czech Glass Beads

Description: 15-1/2" long. Truly elegant, slender, slinky, silky silver and black go with everything! Very feminine. Makes a pretty accent to any outfit. May be worn to the office, on an evening out, and with that little black dress. Would make a great birthday present in any of our birthstone glass bead colors.

Silver plated wire is hand coiled, cut, beaded and linked in the European 4-in 1 Chainmaille weave to create this simple and elegant chain.

 

Thank you for stopping by and having a look.  The Alchemists Vessel would like to wish you a pleasant day.

In My Studio - Beginning Jewelry Classes

Hello,

As many of you may be aware, I was offered a Contracted Instructor position at a local Craft Supply store here in lovely Boise, Idaho.  After much thought, weighing the pros and cons of the situation, and the offer, I have decided that it would be in my best interest to not participate in the program.

However, a little enamored with the idea of teaching in a social atmosphere, I have decided to start up my own class.  The complete and solid details have yet to be worked out and right now I am putting feelers out to see if there is any interest in a Beginning Jewelry class.  If response and class / lesson plans go well, or some people would like to continue past the basics, Intermediate and Advanced classes will be offered.  If you're interested in private lessons those may be taught as well.  I hope to schedule the first class for sometime in June.

Open to the public and all who wish to attend.  Before everybody get's excited, these classes will not be free.  You will be expected to provide your own tools, materials and a fee will be charged to include class time, forgotten materials (provided from stock on hand), and of course classroom space.  A list of all the materials, where to buy them and their cost will be provided along with printed instructions and a completed projects to take home when class is over.

Beginning Jewelry or Jewelry Basics will cover the very basics, a sample of class instruction may include and will not be limited to:

What is a finding?

- head pin

- eye pin (difference in pins and their uses)

- jump rings (aka O-rings)

- Clasps (spring, Lobster Claw, "S")

Ear wires (styles and variations) 

Gemstones, Crystals and Glass beads (Birthstones and alternatives)

Opening and Closing Jump rings properly

Using a head / eye pin

Wire vs. Beading Wire or "Tiger Tail"

Wire Wrapping (We may have a special guest to demonstrate another process / form of wire-wrapping)

Threading or Stringing beads

Metals and their composition (Copper, Bronze, Nickel, Sterling)

Design Elements (Fibonacci Numbers, Focal Points, Accent Beads and Caps)

A completed pair of earrings or project made by you to take home and wear!

There are also other projects that may be offered, such as a Seed bead Flower-chains, a simple charm or crystal bracelet or an easy to string beaded necklace (lanyard for your glasses).

Techniques taught will cover a wide range of how to's and don't do's along with basic finishing touches.  No special equipment is necessary, I bet most of you have at least several pairs of pliers at home, those will work great!

Thank you for stopping by and having a look.  If you are interested in the class you may leave a comment, e-mail, or phone, details will be given at a later date.